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Author Topic: free Pascal x64 platform  (Read 19343 times)

Phil

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2016, 01:28:17 am »
Of course LAZARUS can handle as many projects as you want, take a look at the picture.
That is called "HARDCORE GROUP FEATURE" and as nowadays many people have got 20 to 100 GB of RAM.... what's the big deal ???  :D

Looks like you just launched multiple instances of Lazarus. That doesn't work on Mac, where the assumption is that apps should be document-based and able to open multiple files / projects themselves (as Xcode does).

20 to 100 GB RAM? Who has that?


RAW

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2016, 02:13:13 am »
Really? No multiple instances on a mac? Never heard of that, so my tip is "don't use one" ...  ;)
I've never worked on a mac...

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20 to 100 GB RAM? Who has that?
Mostly people who use a lot of virtual instruments I guess ...
I'm fine with my 16 GB Notebook... ,but I guess for a new Desktop-PC these days 20 GB is normal... dont' know exactly, don't need one right now.  :)

Anyway: it's the easiest solution so far ... [OK, Mac-User standing outside...  :P]
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) & Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3).

Phil

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2016, 02:19:50 am »
Really? No multiple instances on a mac? Never heard of that, so my tip is "don't use one" ...  ;)
I've never worked on a mac...

Those two statements go well together.

Actually there is a way to start multiple instances from the command line, but it's not something that a typical Mac user would know about.

Again, the assumption on Mac is that apps are "document-based". This ancient article gives a bit of explanation. It's the way Macs work. It's the way Mac IDEs work.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28343282/ObjP/ObjP_Part2.html

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Mostly people who use a lot of virtual instruments I guess ...
I'm fine with my 16 GB Notebook... ,but I guess for a new Desktop-PC these days 20 GB is normal... dont' know exactly, don't need one right now.  :)

I have a new Win 2012 AWS server with 8 cores - it only has 15 GB.


RAW

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2016, 05:54:35 am »
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Those two statements go well together.
8-)... :D

Yes, it should be working with these commands:
open  -a  "/Applications/PRG.app"
open  -na "/Applications/PRG.app"
open -n -a "APPLICATION"
But the question is if there are some trapdoors when doing this...

On the other hand I normally need multiple instances only for "Windows-Explorer", "AkelPad-Editor", sometimes "Firefox" and sometimes "Lazarus".
That's it.

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server with 8 cores...
Nice ... sounds fast...


You can use BootCamp.. then you can install Windows on your Mac  :)
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) & Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3).

molly

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2016, 06:39:19 am »
There has always been either a user selected project or a "virtual" empty project open initially.
Take for example the 1.4 series. Despite the option turned off it always loads the last open project. There is no 'virtual' one.

So, the intial reaction is to close it as a) i do not want to mess up a perfectly good working project and b) i want to work with something else.

But then you are 'trapped' by the wizard. Closing the wizard, closes Lazarus. There is no way to get past that other than opening or creating a project using the wizard.

Neither of these options is what i wanted to do or what i want to accomplish.

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It is not old fashioned but it follows a different concept.
In Lazarus you would need to gray out all menu options without a project. How useful is that?
With all respect but that's nonsense. What makes you think that all menu options need to be grayed out ?

In my opinion it makes no sense whatsoever to 'link' certain things to having a project open or not.

It was for instance impossible to install/add a package into the ide (and still is) without having a project 'active'.

Hell, when the wizard stares at you it is not even possible to ask for help.

I understand another concept was chosen, probably because properly managing a list of 'valid' menu items based on a particular situation (a project was loaded, an individual pas file is open, a resource is being edited, or whatever other functionality is implemented in Lazarus) is difficult to maintain for larger applications that harbours a lot of functionality.

For me as end-user it simpy does not make any sence whatsoever that i have to have a project open in order to be able to change editor settings or install a package into the IDE. There is no relation whatsoever with the open project (how 'virtual' it might be) in relation to wanting to take such actions as described, yet things are bound to and/or depending on a project being 'active'.

Because there is now a 'virtual' project open by default, i am now able to create a new project from an existing file (which solved my initial problem of not being able to create a valid Lazarus project for already existing .pas files).

When presenting the user with a wizard then i would expect such actions to be selectable from within the options of the wizard. Maintaining a wizard would take about the same amount of time to implement properly. The upside of using a wizard is that a developer can withold certain functionality from the user until such functionality is actually fully working and implemented. It offers some breathing room for the developer so, i am able to understand that choice.


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In practice every new user (including me a long time ago) initially wants to edit files without a project and scratches his head for a while, then after few days it becomes a non-issue.
Well, i'm used to start an application and be presented by an interface that either allows you to open something from the file-menu, offers an option to create something new or guides you through such process (usually by presenting a wizard or otherwise)

For instance the editor i use simply presents an empty workspace. I can use the file menu to open a file or create a new file/project. I am able to invoke the help to f.i. read about how to configure the editor. I can actually configure things as well and save my changes to reflect my options.

I do not have to open a project and/or file first to be able to do a basic thing like configuring the language or configuring my prefered palette of colours.

All menu(items) are context sensitive in that they are grayed out or sometimes not even present depending on the context (even though the latter is sometimes considered bad styling habbit).

Configureable tool menu items are also context sensitive (if indicated) in that they react to what file is currently active. That means that activating a file written in c, 'displays' only those items configured to do something with c-code (such as compiling). Every type of file can have its own set of tools besides generic configured tools.


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Exactly. It is not ready yet.
Ok, thank you for mentioning. No problem there.

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However the requirement for an open project is not one of the clumsy spots.
Well, as you might have been able to conclude from my answer so far: i disagree  :D

Having a default virtual project at least takes care of end-user not wanting to screw up his/her last auto loaded project.

Closing the project and presenting a wizard with a restricted set of options is still a PITA. The interface forces user to open up a project even though in certain circumstanes there is none needed whatsoever. Using this order of events also strongly hints that creating a new project allows the user to do whatever is needed for all circumstances. Creating a new project from an existing file while a new project was just created simply isn't intuitive in that regards.

So, when you write:
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Projects are your friend, not your enemy.
.. i actually think to myself: That is because that friendship is being forced upon the user.

Please do not get me wrong here as i'm nitpicking about a particular behaviour, as Lazarus is in my opinion an amazing project that usually does its job perfectly fine or for certain things good enough. Every such large project is bound to have some bugs and/or undesired behaviour here and there.

RAW

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2016, 07:39:08 pm »
@molly:
It's funny, I never saw the "Wizard" before you mentioned this "Thing".

I normally start LAZARUS and press CTRL + F11 and load my current *.lpi file. There is nothing to close...
Or I start LAZARUS and start programming or saving the project to a special folder.

I've never ever closed a project. If I want to open another project, then I press CTRL + F11 again or start a new instance of LAZARUS if I want to work in both projects at the same time.
And if I want to start a new project, then I go to Project: New Project and start a new one. I don't close the last one because it's done automatically.
This way it's very easy and fast and I don't get bothered by any kind of wizard.

Funny is, that I've never thought about doing it different...
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) & Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3).

JuhaManninen

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2016, 12:19:27 am »
Take for example the 1.4 series. Despite the option turned off it always loads the last open project. There is no 'virtual' one.
What option is turned off?
A "virtual" empty project is there when you open Lazarus with a new (empty) configuration, and also when you do Project -> New Project ...

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So, the intial reaction is to close it as a) i do not want to mess up a perfectly good working project and b) i want to work with something else.
But then you are 'trapped' by the wizard. Closing the wizard, closes Lazarus. There is no way to get past that other than opening or creating a project using the wizard.
Neither of these options is what i wanted to do or what i want to accomplish.

No, you never even see the wizard unless you explicitly close a project, and you never should explicitly close it.
Instead of closing it you should either open another project or do Project -> New Project ...
Then everything works as you wished for.
Mostly Lazarus trunk and FPC 3.2 on Manjaro Linux 64-bit.

molly

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2016, 10:20:52 am »
It's funny, I never saw the "Wizard" before you mentioned this "Thing".
There is nothing to close...
I've never ever closed a project.
...or start a new instance of LAZARUS
Funny is, that I've never thought about doing it different...
Should that be interpreted as your level of expertise concerning the subject of Lazarus ?

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.....then I press CTRL + F11 again or start a new instance of LAZARUS if I want to work in both projects at the same time.
Sure, i just fire up 8 different instances of Lazarus working on the same shared code-base. How fun that must be *NOT*

If there is any reader out there taking this approach serious then i would really advise to get a life. With all due respect but,  it is one of the most ridiculous advises i've seen in ages.... multiple instances of Lazarus all loading their individual project file all working on the same files: It is a plain nightmare and an accident waiting to happen. I do hope you like your mouse-milage and clicks.

If working this way makes you happy, then by all means keep on doing so but, if you don't mind i'll just keep doing what i've always been doing and which works about a zillion times more intuitive and a ridiculous amount faster.

As i've already said: i am using the best tool for the job and i would advise every reader to do exactly the same and ignore Lazarus in case it is (currently) not the best tool for the job.

What option is turned off?
A "virtual" empty project is there when you open Lazarus with a new (empty) configuration, and also when you do Project -> New Project ...
Yes, in latest Lazarus this is the case, i was referring to old 1.4 series. The option i mentioned was concerning the global option load last project on startup. Iin 1.4 series it did not matter if you checked it or not, it just loaded the last project automatically.

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No, you never even see the wizard unless you explicitly close a project, and you never should explicitly close it.
Instead of closing it you should either open another project or do Project -> New Project ...
Then everything works as you wished for.
Yes, i understand that.

It makes some of the available menu items even more style-guide conflicting as they indicate to be working on the current project. Some of the menu items do while others don't. It is for the end-user to figure this out. Not to belittle your opinion/advise or efforts made by Lazarus team but i've never seen such strange approach.

Are these kind of things actual design decisions or are there simply too few active Lazarus developers around ?

JuhaManninen

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Re: free Pascal x64 platform
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2016, 02:03:20 pm »
Sure, i just fire up 8 different instances of Lazarus working on the same shared code-base. How fun that must be *NOT*

Not the same code but different code from other projects. SoE's idea is good and valid now, later project groups can be used for the same thing. 8 Lazarus instances would be much but 2 instances is very realistic.
Hint: the "virtual desktops" provided by many desktop environments / window managers help here. You can dedicate one desktop for one Lazarus instance. Then you can be sure all the windows you see belong to that instance. Easy and fun!
AFAIK Microsoft Windows has only one desktop (?) but many other systems like KDE, XFCE, Gnome and its derivatives etc. have many.

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Are these kind of things actual design decisions or are there simply too few active Lazarus developers around ?

This one is an actual design decision. It can be changed if somebody really wants to put time, energy and dedication to it.
Again, sepating session info from project is not a trivial task and it brings about zero improvement for people's work-flow, assuming they use the current IDE in a clever way.

Yes, there are too few active Lazarus developers. Contributions from new developers are welcome.
Mostly Lazarus trunk and FPC 3.2 on Manjaro Linux 64-bit.

 

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