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Author Topic: Leaving for Oxygene  (Read 2316 times)

rvk

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 05:27:37 pm »
If I need some extra syntax sugar, I need it to be build. I can not wait until someone finds an issue interesting, fun or whatever before it is taken care of - I need someone who will do the work, and I will pay for it.
And you can get Remobjects to do that for you? With everything you want?

I think it will depend on what they think about that extra syntax sugar. If they think it's useful they might oblige you but there are limits.

Handoko

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 05:42:04 pm »
@tverweij

We all know the support of Lazarus/FPC is not as good as the commercial ones can offer. But maybe you can consider to use bounty. I think it is a win-win solution, you need a new feature, you paid the amount you wish and others get the task and money.

I am not saying they are bad. But instead of paying a fix subscription fee, why not try to donate some here to support open source?

Here is the bounties page of Lazarus/FPC:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Bounties

About the documentation, I admit the information is scattered here and there. If you don't have time to do the searching, you can post the problem on the forum. Remember, people here are nice. Sometimes you think they're angry, but actually they're not.

marcov

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 05:44:35 pm »
I need a set of developers that are maintaining the product - not for fun and pleasure but for their customers. If I find a bug, I expect it to be solved within a few months. If I need some extra syntax sugar, I need it to be build. I can not wait until someone finds an issue interesting, fun or whatever before it is taken care of - I need someone who will do the work, and I will pay for it.

Interesting. So Oxygen is obligated to implement whatever syntactic sugar you think of? That's a first.

We all understand the realities of having to deliver projects on deadlines, and we all know what it is when the boss knocks on your door and he wants something "simple" to be done, and his ridiculously low assessment of how long it will take. (how hard can it be!)

Leaving Lazarus is no problem (though I would urge you to consider keeping it for small stuff, if only for the avoidance of Mono dependencies of small utils). As said I never even fully migrated to it, and I'm a 20 year long core devel. But your reasons IMHO don't compute.

If you are that dependent on your toolchain, you wouldn't choose (another) niche player as alternative.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 05:50:15 pm by marcov »

tverweij

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 05:51:09 pm »
Hi Handoko,

It's because I do not believe in bounties.
How much must I offer?
When will it be taken care of? - I still have to wait until someone finds it fun or needs the money.

What I need is an email address: support@lazarus-ide.org where I can file my bug / request / problem.
If it's a bug, they will handle it from there.
If it is a feature request, they will look into it to see if it is feasible.
If it's a problem they will guide me through it.

A forum can work. As long as the support is an active participator. And if they take action on the things discussed.
Again the same list, but extended with:
If it is not clear how it works, the documentation has to be improved.

That's what I am paying for at Microsoft and at RemObjects, because this kind of support is not possible for free.
And my experience with open source projects is that they do not want to be paid for anything.
They only want donations to do as they please. And I am not going to donate for that.
My customers are also only paying me if I do what they want/need. Not if I am doing what I like.




tverweij

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 05:55:10 pm »
Quote
Interesting. So Oxygen is obligated to implement whatever syntactic sugar you think of? That's a first.

No they won't.
But they guide you with a work around if needed.
Support:
- good documentation
- good communication
- acceptable bug fix times

And that is what they deliver. A product is only as good as it's support.

JanRoza

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 06:52:44 pm »
Maybe I missed it but where are the support questions tverweij asked? I cannot find a single one. Saying there is no support without ever asking for support seems to me like a very strange way to judge Lazarus support. I am very happy with this forum where you always get support when you ask for it. I hope tverweij finds the support he's looking for with Oxygen.
OS: Windows 10 (64 bit)
Laz: Lazarus 1.8.2 FPC 3.0.4 i386-win32-win32/win64

sam707

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2018, 10:37:33 pm »
@JanRoza +1

@the others, I recently reminded that I worked nights long and for years and years on Qt (to correct myself and coworkers around diamond of death in C++)

see topic https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,41128.0.html

I also use crossplatfarm IDEs like Ultimate++, FreeBasic FBEdit, and some other because even if I am out of professionnal life as you know, for 6 years (because I became my own boss), I knew bosses presure BUT

there is no point to abandon an IDE or a framework then come to its forum telling everyone "OK I LEAVE ANOTHER IS DAMN FUN" EVEN MORE IF I DID NEVER PARTICIPATE ACTIVELY TO THEIR FORUM that I leave

it's just like firing bullets in your own feet, in case you need help on the IDE you leave in the future hahaha
@Thaddy +1

cheers! have a nice life @tverweij
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:54:07 pm by sam707 »

Zath

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2018, 11:38:11 pm »
Why did you choose to stop using VB ?

Surely what you use for a project depends on what that project requires as no one package fits all. A proficient coder would be able to use Pascal, C#, VB as all have similar aspects but wouldn't preclude any of them just through some idea of lack of support.

I'm no super coder but as a web developer, I know how things can evolve and how much you need to keep learning. HTML and CSS are totally different from the markup back in the early days. There's no paid support for it either, it's all self taught.

I tweeted Marco Cantu a few weeks back and he replied with an answer. Embarcadero have support forums too where you can ask anything. There are many high echelon coders within easy reach in Embarcadero so its not a hopeless cause.

The Lazarus forums are more friendly than Embarcadero's as its a smaller and volunteer project. I keep looking at VS2017 and Delphi but its this forum and the people within it that keep me using Lazarus.
The name is fine and doesn't detract from the product. Most of the younger generation are too thick to even know what it is.

Good luck with your future projects.

jamie

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2018, 11:52:59 pm »
Going by the initial post it looks like trolling....


 real programmers enjoy working with something they can fix, enhance themselves and pass it along to the
community.

 Since it appears you think otherwise then good luck to you with Oxygen. I've tried it, its sluggish for real time
apps when it decides to do cleanups in the middle of critical operations.

 We write apps that generates real code that is speed efficient and consistent in performance.


 Like I said, good luck.
 
 Don't let the door hit in the butt on the way out.




RAW

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2018, 12:19:51 am »
$800 for coding DOT NET APPS in PASCAL... really ???   hmmm....  interesting... :)
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) And Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3) - LAZARUS 1.8.2 FPC 3.0.4 // 1.7 FPC 3.1.1

jamie

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2018, 12:57:27 am »
 
 We have one gent at work that has that package and I sat with him to port some D code over from it and all we could
get working good on it was the database related items.

 The same code also operates machinery, not directly but talks to PLC's for some items and ethernet and serial for
others..

 The fanless computers aren't real power house computers and having services also running it kind of makes the
brick a slow tard.

 With Oxygen it looks great and seems to work for the parts we could get working, not all of the code ported
but then it would take a break on us and the operator of the machine would sit there punching the touch screen waiting for
it to come up for air... when it did it would sometimes cause some services to overflow or loss data from devices.

 We have two D apps ported using Laz and they seem to work just as good as the D apps did, no unexpected stalls.

sam707

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2018, 01:03:43 am »
@jamie +1
yup I guess, its kinda trolling or flaming attempt. but at some point we all enjoy flaming laz forum hehehehe  >:D
 so its fun  :P isn't it @Thaddy, my dear hated bro  :D

BBasile

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2018, 01:48:30 am »

 We have one gent at work that has that package and I sat with him to port some D code over from it and all we could
get working good on it was the database related items.

...

 We have two D apps ported using Laz and they seem to work just as good as the D apps did, no unexpected stalls.

I assume "D" here means Delphi and not D like the "D programming language" (https://dlang.org/) ?

Phil

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2018, 01:50:38 am »
I assume "D" here means Delphi and not D like the "D programming language" (https://dlang.org/) ?

I assumed "D", but now that you mention it...

BBasile

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2018, 02:00:58 am »
yeah, porting idiomatic D to Oxygene would be very difficult, even impossible, without a tool generating the boilerplate code for the template instances.

 

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