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Author Topic: How long gtk+2.0 will last?  (Read 14615 times)

funlw65

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How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« on: December 29, 2018, 03:37:23 am »
I know is statically linked but how long it will still be theme-able in linux distributions (UNIX is moving slower in that regard)? This is my "drama" right now. Continuing to compile with gtk2, or switching completely to Qt5... In Qt5 looks more polished and of course, Qt is on top of the wave right now and it seems that it will stay there for a long time.
FreePascal 3.2.2, C 10.2.1, D 1.24 under Linux(init,musl,glibc), DragonflyBSD, NetBSD
gui: gtk2, qt5, raylib4.x+raygui3.x, nanovg 
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lucamar

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 04:06:39 am »
Seeing that there are quite a handful of well-known and widely used applications still using GTK2 (like our Lazarus), I'm inclined to say: forever! ;D
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dsiders

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2018, 06:44:12 am »
Seeing that there are quite a handful of well-known and widely used applications still using GTK2 (like our Lazarus), I'm inclined to say: forever! ;D

I'm less optimistic. ;D

I don't think applications (even the largest of them) are keeping GTK+2 going. It is the Linux distros that refuse to move to another toolkit. Those numbers seem to be dwindling. Even some one time GTK+2 stalwarts have moved on to GTK+3 or QT5.

GTK+2 is frozen at 2.24. Even maintenance releases have slowed down. The last one (now 12 months old) took 16 months to arrive. Eventually, this slower pace will drive more distros away. And the death spiral accelerates.

I'm guessing the corpse gets buried in 2020. Isn't it fun playing the pundit? ;D
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JuhaManninen

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2018, 11:36:35 am »
Continuing to compile with gtk2, or switching completely to Qt5
You can easily compile both unless you added widgetset specific code into your application.
Let the user decide which version to use.
Remember, there is also GTK3, although it is not as complete as GTK2 yet.
Mostly Lazarus trunk and FPC 3.2 on Manjaro Linux 64-bit.

dubst3pp4

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2018, 02:44:59 pm »
I think many distributions will remove GTK2 libraries sooner or later. Unfortunately I'm not experienced with C programming - I really would like to see someone to work on the GTK3 bindings. The gir2pascal tool to generate the GTK3 bindings still works really well (see http://lazarus-dev.blogspot.com/2012/08/gtk3-gobject-introspection-and-free.html)  but I was not able to link the examples with a current installation of GTK3...

Maybe we can join forces together to update the LCL binding to GTK3? Anyone willing to help?
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sash

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2018, 04:44:32 pm »
As there are no announcements from distros about gtk2 endoflife, there's no "drama" at all, and even then simple rebuild for QT works.

For emergency measures - there's a WINE  (joke :D).
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funlw65

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2018, 04:57:31 pm »
The 3.22 release is the last development release in the GTK+ 3. series.
GTK+ 3.22 will be maintained as the long-term stable version of GTK+ 3...
3.22.x versions are maintenance releases without changing the ABI.

It is end of line for GTK+ 3 and the translation work can start without the fear that the GTK+ developers will break the code again.

And this is the problem. Only long-term stable or final releases can be translated but with securing the C sources because the time when this happens, the world has moved to another major version of the library.  %)

Anyway, I personally prefer Qt as there is more seriousness than in GTK+ world. And it shows in the "world wide" adoption... The downside is that I have to deliver a quite big shared library alongside the executable of my application.
FreePascal 3.2.2, C 10.2.1, D 1.24 under Linux(init,musl,glibc), DragonflyBSD, NetBSD
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VTwin

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2018, 05:26:42 pm »
I was going to say that I wouldn't worry about it until Ubuntu was released with Qt, but:

https://www.qt.io/ubuntu-built-with-qt

Luckily it seems Lazaus is already Qt ready. :)

The downside is that I have to deliver a quite big shared library alongside the executable of my application.

I assume that with linux Qt distros that will not be necessary?
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funlw65

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2018, 06:27:22 pm »
...
The downside is that I have to deliver a quite big shared library alongside the executable of my application.

I assume that with linux Qt distros that will not be necessary?

It needs Qt5Pas dynamic library. Just tested in another linux version and I get this:
FreePascal 3.2.2, C 10.2.1, D 1.24 under Linux(init,musl,glibc), DragonflyBSD, NetBSD
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zeljko

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2018, 06:29:28 pm »
libQt4Pas is already packaged in all main distros (ubuntu,mint,fedora,suse etc), libQt5Pas is also available but I hope that they'll update libQt5Pas package to the latest one, so lazarus-qt5 can work out-of-the-box on ubuntu,fedora etc.

funlw65

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2018, 06:51:02 pm »
libQt5Pas is also available but I hope that they'll update libQt5Pas package to the latest one, so lazarus-qt5 can work out-of-the-box on ubuntu,fedora etc.

After compiling the sources of libQt5Pas and installing them in Ubuntu 18.04, Lazarus (2.0 rc3) compiles and works ok. Of course, I don't use the packages from the Ubuntu repository.
FreePascal 3.2.2, C 10.2.1, D 1.24 under Linux(init,musl,glibc), DragonflyBSD, NetBSD
gui: gtk2, qt5, raylib4.x+raygui3.x, nanovg 
tui: freevision, tvision2, termbox2+widgets, finalcut
db: typhoon-1.11...

funlw65

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2018, 07:03:09 pm »
Seeing that there are quite a handful of well-known and widely used applications still using GTK2 (like our Lazarus), I'm inclined to say: forever! ;D

Statically linking assure a "forever" status. Well, same when you continue to provide all shared libraries but I referred to the "look" of the application and that is crucial. When a gtk+2 theme engine won't be provided anymore by linux distros, your application will look "alien".

From this angle, I pretty much applaud the Operating Systems with a standard set of GUI (OS X, Windows, Haiku OS). Or the GUI that looks pretty on all the Operating Systems (Qt).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 07:17:15 pm by funlw65 »
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tui: freevision, tvision2, termbox2+widgets, finalcut
db: typhoon-1.11...

zeljko

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2018, 07:45:28 pm »
From this angle, I pretty much applaud the Operating Systems with a standard set of GUI (OS X, Windows, Haiku OS). Or the GUI that looks pretty on all the Operating Systems (Qt).

Qt looks native on all supported OS, that's most important part.

funlw65

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2018, 10:18:23 pm »
This is the future of an application with GUI based on gtk+2, in a non-themeable environment (the right window). And it looks old, no matter how many colorful icons and images you embed in the interface.

Qt has a couple of styles embedded and it looks ok in a "hostile" environment.
FreePascal 3.2.2, C 10.2.1, D 1.24 under Linux(init,musl,glibc), DragonflyBSD, NetBSD
gui: gtk2, qt5, raylib4.x+raygui3.x, nanovg 
tui: freevision, tvision2, termbox2+widgets, finalcut
db: typhoon-1.11...

dubst3pp4

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Re: How long gtk+2.0 will last?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2018, 04:11:11 pm »
I don't understand why you are discussing the qt library when the original question was about GTK. GTK3 development in the last year was awesome! Gnome, elementary, Mate and Cinnamon and last but not least XFCE are only some of the desktop environments that are using GTK3. So how can you say qt is more "serious"?

On Linux it would be a breath of death for Lazarus if it does not support GTK3 in the next years. At least for me, it would be more interesting to be able to use GTK3 than Pascal so I would move to C, Vala, D, Python, Ruby, Lua or whatever, which, by the way, in contrast to FreePascal have excellent GTK3 bindings since years!

But instead of ranting, I would like to change the situation and again would like to call all developers who are unsatisfied with the current situation to join and to coordinate the development on the GTK3 bindings!

Best regards,
Marc
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