Lazarus

Free Pascal => Beginners => Topic started by: JLWest on January 07, 2019, 05:58:27 am

Title: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 07, 2019, 05:58:27 am
I now have a Dropbox. Not entirely sure how it works. I think I post files to it and publish the link  here. With the link you can download.

The quick and dirty to cut KLAX data out is kinda of funny.

I'm on my third write of the program.

The first I can't find, although I almost had it working, I think.

The second I rewrote it and I haven't a clue where it went to.

This one I'm testing on a small hand edited data set and having a few issues that I need to work out.

Maybe done late tomorrow and will post in to the Dropbox.


Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: Handoko on January 07, 2019, 07:47:17 am
Just to warn you.

Is the data available for free? Do you purchase it? You maybe not allowed to distribute or share the data.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 07, 2019, 12:44:36 pm
No you don't buy it. it comes with the product X-Plane. The fie specifications are on the X-Plane site and can be downloaded by anyone. You are free to do anything you want with the data as long as you display two lines at the top of the data:

A
1100 Generated by WorldEditor 1.7.0r2

A = generated for Windows
The second line is what software and version generated the data.

Usage is also explained on the site along with an open license.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 08, 2019, 10:52:29 pm
Actually, something has changed with regards to this. The line(s) required at the top of the file use to be a copyright line with a mans name 'Bell' or something.

Ad then the A and version tool.

But this year no copyright line.

Seems Bell dropped or his his copyright ran out and he open sourced the file.

Telemann on X-Plane who is the Guru of Apt.Dat files says open source or orphan file. No restrictions. 
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: Josh on January 09, 2019, 12:03:04 pm
Copyright diffesr from country to country.

If its a company copright it can be up to 100 years from creation of item, if its private then it can last upto 100 years after the death of the copyright holder.

I have not read or wish to investigate the copyright issues of the data/application, but your best option would be to contact the copyright holder directly.

Even if they say the data is free, it is probable free for YOUR personal use, and you are not allowed to re-distribute, give it away, sell it within another application etc etc.
If you wish to do that then you would normal have to contact the copyright holder to get a license to allow you to use the data in that way.

If you wish to create an application that is using copyrighted/3rd party data, I would seriously suggest that you contact the copyright holder of the data; and explain what you attempting to do with the data; and see what they say. If you have to pay a license fee, this may in itself stop you in your tracks..

I am not trying to be negative; but I would not attempt such work if I did not have clarification in writing from the copyright holder that there would be no problem and I was safe from any legal issues down the line.

The fact the file you have does not have a copyright notice, could mean that the general copyright notice of the application takes precedence; which may now be more restrictive than before.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 09, 2019, 08:30:27 pm
I think we are being a little over reactive here on the copyright of Apt.Dat.

The guy who developed it and had the copyright license distributed the file for free and allowed all of the Flight Sims to use and distribute it. He was the only one who could make changes.

He got a lot of work but then his health failed and for several years nothing was added or fixed.

Sometime in late 2017 or early 2018 he abandoned the copyright. Gave it up. Open sourced or whatever. You can now do anything you want with it including sell, distribute, modify, whatever.

And it now looks like all the flight sims will have custom Apt.Dat. Thus the 2 lines at the top.

A = Windows
1100 Generated by WED v1.5.1  (X-Plane 11 Software)

No Copyright line in my X-Palne 11 v11.25.
Archive on my machine of past versions of X-Plane shows the Copyright line was last in V11.02r2.

I think were safe.

 
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: Josh on January 11, 2019, 09:31:36 pm
Hi

I thought I would try the demo version to get access to the data.

from https://www.x-plane.com/desktop/try-it/

But upon reading the EULA; when installing. I Stopped.

I would say that it is prohibted from this use.
Quote
3. RESTRICTIONS ON USE. The Products may not be used for any other purpose, nor be sold or given by End-User to any third party for any use. Use of the Data by End-User to generate aviation charts or maps, whether for reference only or actual air navigation, is expressly prohibited. The Products cannot be used for performance based navigation procedure design (RNAV-RNP). End-User will NOT: (a) copy, reproduce, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or publish the Data;(b)electronically transfer the Products to multiple computers over a network system; (c) distribute copies of the Products or accompanying materials to others; (d) modify, adapt, or translate the Products or create derivative works based on the Products; or (e) assign, rent, lend, sell, transfer or sublease the Products.

Unless we are talking about something totally different.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 12, 2019, 01:05:15 am
I believe we are talking about something else or a legacy description left over.

Go over to X-plane 11 and join the form. There is a special section for the Apt.dat file. Guys are doing all kinds of things with the file.

Lammair is in effect selling it with their product and not showing a copyright statement. If anyone would know they would, don't you think.

Timpleman is the Guru of the Apt.Dat. if you have a question you ask him. He will tell you how to change edit, parse, whatever your trying to do.

That's what I think
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: Josh on January 12, 2019, 01:57:18 am
Hi

I am only quoting what is in the EULA when you install it
If you do not agree to the eula then you cant install it,
and by clicking the accept you are agreeing and are bound legally by the agreement.

That is all I am saying, like I said I was going to install the try version to get access to the data, but stopped at that point; as reading it I would not legally be able to do anything with the data.

Could you get clarification from the x-plane  forum; as it seems in conflict with the EULA of the installer, and that would be the best/only way to get the data file for me personally any how.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 12, 2019, 02:08:33 am
@Josh

There is a document of the specification of the Apt.dat file on X-Plane.com, (Not the Form)

The PDF file is to big to upload even zipped but the following lines appear half down on the first page:

I
1000 Version - data cycle 2012.03, build 20121054, metadata AptXP1100. Copyright © 2012, Robin A. Peel
( robin@xsquawkbox.net) ...
The complete copyright message must be left intact if you redistribute this data. The GNU GPL (General Public License) under which this data is released is
designed to encourage modifications, enhancements and redistribution, even in commercial derivative products.

This is why I think I can do what I'm doing.

I do have a request in with Templeman. Lamar won't answer us lonely peons, that's why they have Templeman.

I would contact Robin A. Peel but it seems God would have to be his notary on this one. Weather it's true or not I read one form somewhere he passed.

Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 12, 2019, 02:16:07 am
https://developer.x-plane.com/docs/specs/

Location of the File Specification document on X-Plane.com

Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 12, 2019, 03:02:10 am
He is what Termplemon says:

" Posted 21 minutes ago

If you got that apt.dat as part of X-plane - the X-plane license terms & condition would govern anything you can do with any files gotten that way - which is completely regardless of what any file may or may not say inside of it.

Besides that - all X-plane scenery formats are publicly documented and they all these docs say expressly say that anyone can write any software that reads, modify or write files and uses these documents to do that. Heck - there is lots of GIS software out there by many companies that can read and some even write apt.dat files - as the GDAL library officially supports that file format. So writing software that modifies apt.dat file is perfectly kosher.

If anyone uses that software to modify files they got from somewhere - it would all depend on what the copyright owner of those files lets anyone do with it. Which is never the problem of the guy writing that software."

I still think I'm good to go.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: Josh on January 12, 2019, 09:31:31 am
Hi

Quote
If you got that apt.dat as part of X-plane - the X-plane license terms & condition would govern anything you can do with any files gotten that way - which is completely regardless of what any file may or may not say inside of it.

This would imply that  the EULA takes priority over anything else when the file is in x-plane.

Is there another location where this file (non X-plane generated) can downloaded.

Seems a gray area to me, unless I am over looking it.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: jamie on January 12, 2019, 02:36:53 pm
My method of reading a large file and filtering what I want from it would be to allocate a single chunk of
memory that can load the complete file in one step then using my own line scanner starting at the beginning
of the memory I would then read line by line until I find a line of interest.
 
 Take the line, extract info needed, create a new entry and store it at the start of this memory chunk with a
automatic pointer to be set for the next line to be stored.

 When completed, you have overwritten past lines you read in with valid info you have recreated in the
same buffer but only now, you have some left over memory you can delete or just leave it as is..
 
 so doing it this way  you have a single chunk of memory pre-allocated for both parts, the incoming and the outgoing using the same memory...

 You start off by having a READ pointer and a WRITE pointer which uses a LINEGETTER and a LINEWRITER
function etc..

Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: valdir.marcos on January 12, 2019, 07:18:53 pm
I would contact Robin A. Peel but it seems God would have to be his notary on this one. Weather it's true or not I read one form somewhere he passed.
X-Plane 11.30 Released As The Best Linux-Supported Flight Simulator
Written by Michael Larabel in Linux Gaming on 12 January 2019 at 06:42 AM EST. 8 Comments
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=X-Plane-11.30-Released
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1072571-x-plane-11-30-released-as-the-best-linux-supported-flight-simulator

Are you sure Robin A. Peel passed away?
I could not find anything about that on the internet, not even on his site.
https://www.x-plane.com/
https://www.x-plane.com/blog/
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: valdir.marcos on January 12, 2019, 07:21:14 pm
Just curious.
Have you tried open source options such as FlightGear?
http://home.flightgear.org/
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: lucamar on January 12, 2019, 07:46:46 pm
Quote
If you got that apt.dat as part of X-plane - the X-plane license terms & condition would govern anything you can do with any files gotten that way - which is completely regardless of what any file may or may not say inside of it.

This would imply that  the EULA takes priority over anything else when the file is in x-plane.

If the file really is GPLed then that EULA can NOT override the GPL. It was designed (among other things) specifically to prevent this kind of situations. If they ever tried to force the EULA over that file then they would themselves run afoul of the GPL.

Yes, it's a gray and murky area for us non-lawyers but ... I'd bet on the GPL priority--even more if it's the original license, as seems to be the case here.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 12, 2019, 09:04:22 pm
No I'm not certian. As I said. I read it on a web site somewhere. At the time I didn't know he was the one who held the rights.

 
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 12, 2019, 09:42:43 pm
Just curious.
Have you tried open source options such as FlightGear?
http://home.flightgear.org/

No I haven't and I'm wondering why I should.

I suppose to get a whatever for the Apt.dat file. Below is a link to my Gmail
DropBox.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EUgEW4_7NmdEJNXsCGkByLdG0cJqmVg4

Half way down on the first page it states the following:

The file specification may be followed by a reference to a sequential release data cycle and build number for the data, and a
copyright message:

I
1000 Version - data cycle 2012.03, build 20121054, metadata AptXP1100. Copyright © 2012, Robin A. Peel
( robin@xsquawkbox.net) ...
The complete copyright message must be left intact if you redistribute this data. The GNU GPL (General Public License) under which this data is released is
designed to encourage modifications, enhancements and redistribution, even in commercial derivative products.

You can actually go to the X-Plane.com and read it on the site or download the spec file. I also think you can download the file.

Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 12, 2019, 11:13:28 pm
Hi

Quote
If you got that apt.dat as part of X-plane - the X-plane license terms & condition would govern anything you can do with any files gotten that way - which is completely regardless of what any file may or may not say inside of it.

This would imply that  the EULA takes priority over anything else when the file is in x-plane.

Is there another location where this file (non X-plane generated) can downloaded.

Seems a gray area to me, unless I am over looking it.

The ELUA is worthless and takes plendence over nothing. Before retiring I was told that by the company lawyers as my company developed, shipped and installed software worldwide. It was a convention dreamed up by MS to curtail pirated software.

Congress has not authorized the use of a checkbox in lieu of a signature no are they likely to anytime soon.

If a developer want's a binding contract on that they need to get a notarized document before shipping product.

They leave it in hoping it will do some good.

Read the warranty of you car. According to that they are not responsible for anything but still they pay millions every year for their screw ups.

Some places in the world accept it. Common in Europe I think. But not in the US. Not in India, Russia or China.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: Handoko on January 13, 2019, 03:05:27 pm
On X-plane website, I saw we can download free demo. The installer is only 20 MB so I think the included data file may be the slimmed-down version that does not contains 7 millions records. But it at least gives a sample data for testing.

Can anyone check it to make sure it has the same file format as what @JLWest mean?
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: Josh on January 13, 2019, 04:22:09 pm
Hi

That's where I started, when you start the installer, read the EULA. That is where I backed out.
Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 13, 2019, 04:24:46 pm
On X-plane website, I saw we can download free demo. The installer is only 20 MB so I think the included data file may be the slimmed-down version that does not contains 7 millions records. But it at least gives a sample data for testing.

Can anyone check it to make sure it has the same file format as what @JLWest mean?

Yes it has the same format.


I never downloaded the demo but bought the product. It is my understanding that the demo is the same as the product.

There is one possibility to that being a slim down version of an Apt.Dat. I believe the demo will only let you fly within a 100 or so miles of you location. So I wouldn't be able to start  at Heathrow England because I live in Phoenix. They would have to do that thru the apt.dat file. I get that from reading threads where guys are complaining of not being able to start in wherever or fly to somewhere. Always turns out. Do you have the demo. And low and behold there are more than one apt.dat files on a typical installation.

If you buy a payware airport for your custom scenery dir say a MisterX's KLAS you will get two supplied by him. One with ground (Static Aircraft) and one with out. All custom  scenery airports come with their own apt.dat file. In my case I have about 30.

So in summary:

There is the Global: 7.9 million records. that I'm trying to work with.

Local Global in Custom Scenery: C:\X-Plane 11\Custom Scenery\Global Airports\Earth nav data\apt.dat  This file is smaller. About 163,959KB. It is unclear what the use of this apt.dat file is but info suggest it is used as a small backuip should your global 7.9 mil become corrupted. If they can't find your desired location in the secondary they display a message of corrupt file and crash to the desktop.


And then all payware airports supply there own apt.dat file but must meet X-Plane spec because X-Plane renders and loads.

Here is the short and dirty of how it kinda of works:

When you stat X-Plane you have to select a starting airport from a list box of 3,700+ airports. You can not start from an airport not in the system.

If I specify KLAX it checks my Custom scenery dir for a KLAX. If there that's what it loads and uses the KLAX apt.dat file supplied buy the designer.

If not it goes to the global. The 7.9 mill and reads out the KLAX records.

No here is where the magic happens. I don't have anywhere on my system 3,700+ airport designs with buildings. The apt.dat only carries flat earth, line and signs, lights and static aircraft. No buildings or towers. Supposedly there in somekind of markup file somewhere. 



Title: Re: Test Data Set and a dropbox.
Post by: JLWest on January 13, 2019, 04:51:13 pm
Hi

That's where I started, when you start the installer, read the EULA. That is where I backed out.

Well you probably not breaking the law if you download the Demo.

You can as a matter of fact build your own custom airport and submit it to X-Plane 11 Scenery Gateway. It must have an apt.dat file. X-pane dose NOT build airport. The user community builds and submits airports. Do a search for X-Plane 11 scenery gateway.

It will explain in excruciating detail how to, what to, who can (anybody) owners and non owners of the product. design and submit an airport. All are accepted only one per airport is recommended.

One of the little things that MUST be submitted with each and every airport is the apt.dat file.

You know that's like creating an apt.dat file, modifying an apt.dat file and distributing an apt.dat file.

And X-Plane encourages it, has sense version 9 when you use to take off from bare tarmac.



 
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